Hm, zvući mi poznato, hvala !
Moram pročitati sve knjige, još za života.

"A false awakening is a short real-time OBE*, in which the projectors believe they are awake instead of projecting."
Str. 138,

*OBE - Out-of-Body-Experience (vantelesno iskustvo, kada energetski dvojnik (projector's double - autorov naziv) napusta fizicko telo)

"False awakening" u bukvalnom prevodu znaci "lazno budjenje", odnosno oznacava stanje kada se probudimo misleci da smo stvarno budni al zapravo smo i dalje u snu. Izgleda da je za Robert Bruce-a lazno budjenje u stvari OBE projekcija u real-time zonu. (Za Kastanedu je to druga kapija snova). S toga copy/paste-ujem deo iz knjige.


Autor opisuje razliku izmedju Lucid dreaming (lucidnih snova), real-time projections(projekcija u real-time zonu), i astral projections(projekcija u astralne ravni), tehnike "proveravanja stvarnosti", i mnogo toga jos.

The Real-Time Zone

I call the nonphysical dimensional level closest to the physical universe the real-time zone. This is, naturally, the dimensional level the vast majority of projectors find themselves in when they first project out of body. The real-time zone can best be thought of as a buffer zone or intermediary area dividing the physical universe from the astral dimension proper. It shares some properties of the physical universe (a direct and objective real-time reflection of reality) and some properties of the astral dimension (a fluid, nonphysical environment).

The real-time zone, although technically still a part of the astral dimension, is best considered a completely separate dimensional level. This sidesteps much of the confusion inherent in trying to relate a single set of projection-related factors and environmental properties to more than one dimensional level. The out-of-body environment is anything but simple. Each dimensional level contains a different environment, each with its own unique set of aspects and properties.

Reality fluctuations are the most noticeable confusing factor in the real-time zone. These fluctuations are so consistent in the real-time zone that they actually form one of its few constants. I have found the real-time zone to be fairly stable and predictable in itself. Most fluctuations are caused, I think, from interactions between the fairly sensitive real-time environment and the generally unstable perceptions of the real-time projected double.

Because the real-time zone is so close to the physical dimension, New Age thought puts it at the very bottom of the dimensional scale. This leads people to consider it to be a lower astral subplane, traditionally a negative and unsavory environment, to be actively avoided. But the real-time zone does not bear any direct relationship with the lower astral subplanes. It is a completely separate neutral area, best considered as being neither high nor low in the dimensional spectrum.

The average projector finds the real-time zone fairly dark and gloomy, a totally inaccurate picture that stems from projecting only late at night, just before going to sleep. At night the world is naturally dark and gloomy and full of shadows! I would suggest to all who dispute this that they project during the daytime at least once and experience this difference. There is nothing at all dark or gloomy or scary about a real-time projection on a sunny day. On the contrary, it is one of the most delightful and thoroughly enjoyable experiences I can think of.

The real-time zone overlays and permeates the entire physical universe and contains a perfect reflection of reality within it. Everything happens in real-time — as reality actually happens — hence its name. Projectors traveling within the real-time zone and remaining stable and unaffected by reality fluctuations perceive themselves to be following the actual spatia contours and geographical shape of the physical universe. They thus appear to be existing inside a direct nonphysical reflection of reality... as eality happens.

I have spent a great deal of time in the real-time zone exploring its properties and limitations. The experience is very much like being an invisible specter in the real world. The normal laws of physics do not have any direct effect on real-time projectors. They are free to travel at will anywhere in the physical universe, at any speed, and can defy gravity. They can move through solid matter at will, although they may perceive some texture and varying degrees of resistance.

Real-time projectors exist as invisible points of consciousness (although they usually perceive themselves quite differently) connected to the physical body via an invisible energetic linkage often called the silver cord. Their physical location is usually consistent with where they perceive themselves to be in the real world. Their movements can be tracked and ascertained if they are viewed with real-time sight, a type of clairvoyance. The only other way to verify the real-time 8 aspects of a real-time projection is for the projectors to gather information and accurately report real-life events and facts that they would have no other possible way to know.

Real-time sight enables observers to see into the real-time zone around them. The quality of this type of sight is variable. Sometimes only cloudy shapes or indistinct images of the surrounding room will be seen through closed eyelids and bedcovers. A stronger level of real-time sight can, at the other extreme, be mistaken for normal physical sight (it can be that clear) when projectors see their rooms and real-life events happening around them vividly, but through closed eyelids.

A simple way of proving that real-time projection is an objective rather than a purely subjective experience is with a deck of cards. Shuffle the deck and, without looking, lay one card face up on top of a wardrobe, cabinet or somewhere high up in your own home, preferably at least twenty feet (six meters) away from where your physical body will be. Or tape the card to a window, facing outward, without looking at it. Do not use more than one card until you have some real success with this test.

Do not try to guess the card. Guesswork — even simply wondering what the card is — can easily cause subconscious interference (reality fluctuations), which can make a genuine real-time observation extremely difficult. If, for example, you try to guess or intuit what the card is, you may see the card you have guessed, instead of seeing the actual card. This can undermine the real-time observation with a small reality fluctuation and make the observation inaccurate.

At the very start of the projection, immediately move to where the card is and look at it. Glance at it only briefly, and remember it. When you are sure you can remember the card, re-enter your body, write down the card you saw, and then go check.

To give this test a fair go, keep it very short and do not try to do anything more during the projection. When you approach your physical body to reenter it, hold the memory of this card firmly in mind and, quite literally, shout it out loud as you are reentering, e.g., "The Queen of Hearts!... The Queen of Hearts!" This will maximize your chances of remembering not only the projection, but also the face of the card you saw during the test. Please follow this procedure to the letter, or you may lose the memory not only of the card, but of the entire projection.

The normal abilities of the projected double often manifest spontaneously before an actual projection. These abilities have many levels, but their most basic quality enables a physical observer to see and hear into the real-time zone around them. I usually develop fairly strong real-time sight and hearing during meditation. Most people develop some level of real-time sight and hearing just before or during projection, just before they exit their physical body. This results in the commonly reported experience of projectors seeing details of the room around them through closed eyelids, and of hearing strange noises and/or voices around them during the separation phase of an OBE.

As an example of a real-time projection experience, I think of my nephew Matt's two-week visit back in 1991. During this time, apart from many other activities, I coached Matt on projection. A few days before he was due to leave, while meditating late at night, I clearly saw Matt's projected realtime double float through the wall and come into the room I was sitting in. He waved cheerfully at me and I slowly waved back at him, without breaking my entranced state — no mean feat in itself — immensely pleased that Matt had finally managed to get out of his body. Matt floated about the room, seemingly having some difficulty with movement and directional control, but apparently thoroughly enjoying himself. He soon floated out of my sight and that was the last I saw of him that night.

The next morning Matt was very excited about his first conscious-exit projection. He vividly remembered using my technique and feeling heavy vibrations, then leaving his body, moving through the wall and seeing me, and us waving at each other. He lost track of the experience shortly after he floated back through the wall. Note: a few seconds after Matt moved out of my sight, I heard a distinct groan and movement coming from the direction of his bedroom. Matt appears to have briefly awakened at that time and thus ended his first conscious-exit projection. The short duration of his projection (following my advice on keeping it short)
Str.8

Knjiga:

Astral Dynamics: A New Approach to Out-of-Body Experiences
by Robert Bruce (Author), Professor C. E. Lindgren (Author)

Download (2.9mb): http://rapidshare.com/files/41289225/1265856907.rar
RAR password: www.AvaxHome.org

Posto se vec spominjalo na ovoj temi da postoji velika mogucnost susresti se, pa cak i boriti se sa entitetima u drugoj kapiji snova (real-time zona), Robert Bruce navodi neke od tehnika (prevazilazenje straha, kako odrediti da li je entitet dobar ili zao), upoznavanja sa raznim (cudnim) situacijama, kao i upoznavanje sa izvanrednim mogucnostim naseg energetskog dvojnika u cilju da se zastiti i uzvrati napad (ovo poslednje je najzanimljivije ).

Da sad ne bih copy/paste-ovao, procitajte od str.204-226

33. Astral Beings and Wildlife
Astral Ceremonies
High-Level Contact (Sending Out a Request, Projection Method, Asking for Directions)
The Priest and the Curse — Experience
Thought Form or Nonphysical Life-Form?
Lower Subplane Wildlife

34. Fear and Astral Noises
The Many Colors of Fear (Heavy Exit Sensations, Excitement and Anxiety, The Unknown and the Darkness, Mind-Split-Generated Fear, Primal Gut Reaction, Dweller on the Threshold)
Astral noises and Other Things
That Go Bump in the Plight (Astral Voices, Two Possible Causes for Astral Noises, Dealing with Astral Noises, Clutching Hands and Other Annoyances, OBE Hitchhikers)
Overcoming Fear (Religion and OBE)

35. Astral Self-Defense
Astral Matter
Created Thought Forms
The Creative Act
Shape-Shifting

===========================================
Astral combat experiences like these show some of the enormous potential of the projected double. It is quite capable of looking after and defending itself — if the projectors realize they are capable of doing so. As I said earlier, the projected double is a very powerful being. It does not have to meekly put up with the unkind ministrations of troublesome astral wildlife of any kind. This may be the reason why astral wildlife in general seem to actively avoid direct encounters with real-time projectors.

I would hazard a guess these beings either know or can sense the energetic potential of real-time projectors and that they are naturally afraid of them. This may be why they go to such great lengths to unnerve new projectors and scare them back into their bodies, often causing them to give up OBE altogether. Every aware projector is a serious threat to them and to their way of life. Think about it: if enough aware projectors were allowed to roam around the out-of-body environment at will, the bad guys might have to vacate the real-time zone and return to whatever dark dimensional backwater they originated from.
===============================================
Str.225

Sad, koliko sam ja shvatio Robert Bruce tvrdi da najvise losih entiteta ima u real-time zoni ili bar je tamo najveca mogucnost susresti se sa njima. Nize oblike zlonamernih entiteta, on naziva imenom Wildlife i gotovo u 99% je u pitanju Wildlife, ako, kojim slucajem, dodje do sukoba ili koskanja sa njihove strane.

Bez obzira sto autor uglavnom opisuje sve vezano za OBE iskustva, i susrete sa entitetima u tom stanju, mislim da i (Kastanedini) sanjaci koji dodju u drugu kapiju (mozda i dalje), mogu da izvuku nesto korisno iz njegove price.

Knjiga:
Astral Dynamics: A New Approach to Out-of-Body Experiences
by Robert Bruce (Author), Professor C. E. Lindgren (Author)

Download (2.9mb): http://rapidshare.com/files/41289225/1265856907.rar
RAR password: www.AvaxHome.org

U knijzi su opisane tehnike za prikupljenje energije jer je ona veoma bitna za razvoj energetskog dvojnika i bolju prisutnost/svesnost, kada se upustimo u druge dimenzije. Sto je energetsko bice svesnije to ima vecu mogucnost da ide u "vise" dimenzije, cak i u one koje su iznad astralnih ravni. Ima dosta slicnosti sa Kastanedom u pristupu koji energetski centri treba da se pobude, mada je tehnika vezbi malo drugacija, ali sa istim ciljem.
Robert Bruce, unutrasnji monolog ili konstantno brbljanje naseg razuma naziva Surface thoughts i daje savete kako da ih suzbijemo/eliminisemo pri meditaciji da bismo postigli unutrasnju tisinu. Uglavnom se svodi na usmeravanje paznje na nase pravilno disanje. Sve u svemu ima dosta slicnosti sa Kastanedinim ucenjem.

Evo sta drugi ljudi kazu na kvalitet knjige. Opis i kritike na amazonu: KLIK

Danas sam se probudio u krevetu, koji se nije nalazio na svom uobicajenom mestu. Krenuo sam da ustajem i odjednom me je uhvatila neka nevidljiva sila koja je pocela da me baca po sobi sa takvom lakocom da sam imao osecaj kao da sam tezak oko 20 grama. Ubrzo sam se probudio. Sve vreme sam bi svestan sna i trajalo je oko 5-10 sekundi. Nisam se uplasio, mozda nisam ni imao vremena da se uplasim. Cak sve to sto se izdesavalo nit uzimam za ozbiljno i opterecavajuce.

Inace san se desavao iz prvog lica. Da li je neko imao ista slicno?

"Vid" mi nije jos ostar u snu, mutnjikav je.

meni se tako nešto dogodilo par puta. jednom dok sam spavao u susjednoj sobi nego što obično spavam;počelo je zujanje u mojoj glavi i onda se moja svijest našla u sobi u kojoj obično spavam i lebidila tu par sekundi dok s enisam probudio sam istim zujanjem.
drugi put sam u snu bio u svojoj sobi i vidio svoj odraz koji ne bi tu trebao biti , tada me neka slia odvukla do mjesta gdje sam spavo pa sam se probudio , onda jednom sam isto osjetio zujanje ali se nisam mogao micati nekoliko sekudni dok se niej stišalo , onda par puta u nekim snovima gdje bih psotao sviejsatn isto me neka sila odvukla prema mjestu moje pažnje,u većini tih doživljaja bilo je rpisutno jako zujanje i strujanje kroz mene , a u jednome je čak bio snažan vrtlog u meni ili sam tako doživio to. ti snovi nisu ništa loše nego su dobar znak bar koliko sam ja shvatio , jer imao sam ih samo kada sam bio napunjen sviješću i energijom i ugo vremena ih nisam imao.[/list]

Ja sam prekjučer režirala svršetak svog sna koji je završio vrlo lijepo

Ja sam dosla samo do toga da prekinem san ako mi se ne svidja ....ne nekim tehnikama, tako se sponatno desava.

Meni se to totalno spontano dogodilo.
Trebala sam se probuditi, ali sam sama sebi rekla, NE još, još se mora dogoditi taj završni dio, sretan završetak. I tako se desilo

Mozda si u snu podsvjesno razrijesila neku situaciju iz svog zivota onako kako tebi odgovara, vidjeces sama

Da barem Jer priča u snu se dosta ticala mog života i trenutne situacije koja me ponekad muči.

U zadnje vrijeme se bavim testiranjem razlicitih vjezbi koji bi potakli sanjanje. Nedavno sam otkrila jedne vjezbe koje meni osobno jako dizu nivo energije i pospjesuju unutarnju tishinu. Probala sam kombinirati jednu od njih sa pozicijom za sanjanje i dosla do nekih iznenadajucih rezultata. Iako jos mi djeluje nepotpuna podjelit cu je sa vama ako zelite je isprobati, pa ih sami mozete kombinirati sa svojim znanjima. U koliko dodjete do neke odlicno funkcionalne "formule" bilo bi ljepo da podjelite sa ostalima. Neznam dali bi ovaj post trebao biti zasebna tema no ukoliko ima ljudi koji su prakticari mislim da nebi bila losa ideja.

prije odlaska na spavanje bi trebalo uci u meditaciju i dosegnut unutrasnji mir. Pozicija za spavanje je na ledjima sa rukama u zraku u obliku kruga. Prsti jedne i druge ruke moraju biti usmjereni jedni prema drugima no nikako se dodirivati, takodjer je vazno da ne prekrizite noge. Pokusajte se opustiti u toj poziciji koliko god mozete. Zamislite da ste sladoled i da se topite u sirinu i preko kreveta. Trebali bi osjetiti na tjemenu manji pritisak nakon nekog vremena, Taj pritisak ce se povecati kao da vam je nesto na glavi ali nebi trebalo biti neugodno, on bi se trebao siriti od tjemena prema ramenima, kao da ste preliveni sa necime. Probajte ostati opusteni i zaspati u tim trenutcima.

pozicija za spavanje


mozete isprobati neke od metoda za lucidno sanjanje ili kombinirati sa drugim tehnikama koje koristite.

have fun

ovako. dakle kuzim razliku izmedju sanjanja, lucidnog sanjanja te astralnih projekcija. kuzim i da unutar astralnih projekcija mozemo "naletiti" na raznorazne entitete. no da li lucidan san ima ikakve veze sa astralnim tijelom, odnosno da li je san (lucidan) samo produkt mozga ili tu ima nesto vise?

i da li se u lucidnom snu mogu susretati neki entiteti i ako da da li su oni produkt mozga unutar REM faze?

da li astralna projekcija zapocinje sa sanjanjem?

ovo sve pitam jer sam maloprije gledao "na rubu znanosti" (repriza) - lucidni snovi, no nigdje nije receno bar malo o astralnim projekcijama, a o lucidnim snovima su govorili samo kao "produkt" mozga te nacin da se zabavimo. nikakvi entiteti, nikakvi leveli... nista

ako mi moze netko pomoci bio bih mu zahvalan

zanimljivo pitanje, i mislim da ti nitko tocno nemoze odgovoriti na to, pogotovo jer se radi o snovima koje nemozes na neki znastveni nacin izmjeriti i analizirati.
Tako da bi odgovori bio i da i ne.
Neki snovi jesu produkt naseg mozga/podsvjesti pa cak i lucidni.
Ja sam svoje lucidne podjelila u 2 kategorije.
1) koje mogu manipulirati/mijenjati okolinu i sadrzaj (ukljucujuci sebe i ljude)
2) koje nemogu manipulirati

Mislim da to cak zavisi i od otvorenosti osobe, tj ako zelis biti kreator svog malog svijeta da ti nista iz vana nemoze doci kao ni ti van svog svijeta, a ako zelis istrazivati onda izadjes iz tog svog oklopa...

Ono sa malim prstom od Castanede mi nikad nije upalilo, jednom mi se samo dogodilo da je osoba pocela mjenjati oblike.

rekla bi da je dobar pokazatelj kad ti netko govori stvari koje neznas, koje nikad nisi nigdje cuo niti procitao, kao i navodjenje svtari koje ce se dogoditi, imena ljudi i sl.

a "nizi astral" sa entitetima lako prepoznas, boje su tmurne i zagasite, ima puno vode (rijeka) napusteni gradovi... pa tamo najbolje nit ne komunicirati sa nikim niti odavat da si svjestan.

sto se tice astralne, cula sam za neke da su izasli svjesno dok ne spavaju, no meni osobno se cini da je to nemoguce jer bi trebao prevariti tjelo da spava da mozes izaci iz njega, tj inace bi se to pretvorilo "remote viewing".

ovo sve napisano je naravno moja interpretacija.

Može se u astralnu projekciju na budno!
I to ne samo po ovom svijetu.

molim te obrazlozi.

Npr. Ukoliko si budan znaci da si u svojem tjelu, zar ne? onda ukoliko imas osjecaj da si odvojen od svojeg tijela ti i "vidis" sa zatvorenim ocima, zar to nije remote viewing? ukoliko si odvojen i vidis sebe, a nemozes kontrolirat svojim tjelom, zar to nije OBE? Meni je logicki zakljucak da budno stanje astralne projekcije je da si na 2 mjesta u isto vrijeme i mozes sa oba tjela funkcionirat. Iako o tome pise i u knjigama, mislim da je to prakticki neizvedivo/dokazivo, tj, ne vjerujem u dualnost duse ili svojeg dvojnika (to bi bilo 2duse - 2 ti u 1 tijelu- sto tad dovodi do pitanja kompletnosti ljudskog bica ili nepotrebnost razdvajanja na spolove - ali to je druga prica)

kako sam vise prakticar nego teoreticar voljela bi cuti na koji nacin je to izvedivo, slobodno me razuvjeri.

Nije to tako razumno, a niti se da složiti tako a da bude makar blizu stvarnosti.

Recimo da mi uopće ni nismo materijalna bića, nego smo zapeli u toj zabludi.
Neću se upuštati u teoriju, samo ću ispričati doživljaj.

Mene je apsolutni nedostatak brige za stvarnost (mene i moj svijet) puknuo daleko van ljudkog svijeta, tijelo mi se rasplinulo, vjetar "izvana" odnio sobu i svijet na kojem živimo... i ostao sam ono što mi piše u sigu.

Naravno, pronašao sam preplašeno svoj mikroskopski mali ljudski svijet i uletio nazad i prostorvremenski kontinuum tamo gdje sam stao.

Mjesecima poslije sam imao efekt da mi oči u trenu zapamte sliku koju gledam i vidim je kad pomaknem pogled drugamo i svakakvih sitnica.

Ali vidio sam naš svijet izvana, sa ogromne vjetrometine naguala.
Zaista je smješno koliko je naš svijet mali i mlak u odnosu na ogromnost i intenzitet vani. "vani" možda i nije riječ za to, no ne znam pravu riječ.

Desetljećima poslije mi je sinulo da sam to sve ja, a znao sam to i tada, no nisam pretočio u rijeći.

ovo je vec tema za fizicare
recimo da donekle shvacam tvoje iskustvo, problematiku mikro i makro kozmoza. No probaj se vratiti u to sijecanje prekopaj po njemu detaljno, jer ono sto me muci je pojam svjesti koja je dualna. Mislim i ovo je moja pretpostavka, da je svijest bila samo 1, koliko god rasirena, pa cak da je obuhvacala i cijeli kvart jednog velegrada.

Kazu da oni koji dozive kundalini osjecaju se kao da su jako narasli i spojili se sa svime.

Tema materije i organskih bica je zbilja opsiran pojam, pogotovo ako uzmemo u obzir da nasa svijest kreira stvarnost, ipak nadalje ostaje pitanje, zasto nismo u mogucnosti kreirati materiju? ukoliko je stvarna koliko je i um ljudi zasto i dalje umiremo, ozljedjujemo se bez obzira kakvo je stanje nase svijesti, do sad koliko ljudi je uspijelo nadici, smrt, bol, bolest, fizicke nedostatke kao sto je invaliditet. Moje misljenje je da bi ovo svakako trebalo imati na umu, dok se bavimo slicinim proucavanjima jer covjek da zastrani, potrebno mu je vrlo malo, a to je zbilja najlakse, uvijeriti Sebe da je u pravu

No opet smo zastranili, jer ovdje naime se radi o astralnoj projekciji i problematici dualnosti svijesti

Pa rekao bih da radimo materiju, radimo cijeli svoj svijet u kontinuitetu.

A sad, zašto toga nismo svjesni, to je već druga problematika.