Šteta napisao sam post i odjavilo me sa foruma tako da se cijeli post izgubio,evo sad ću morati napisati ponovno po drugi puta.
Vidim da pantelija kaže da nije vidio klip gdje se Osho smijao u strange consequences pred sam kraj videa se vidi.Ali da prijeđem na stvar.
Osho je zanimljiva ličnost.Izjave tipa da je svrstavao Hitlera i Gandija u isti koš stvarno puno govore o njegovom prosvjetljenju i vašem cjelokupnom istraživanju što se Osho-a tiče.Svrstavao je Hitlera koji je ubijao i mučio druge ljude u isti koš sa čovjekom koji je mučio samoga sebe,a tako šta napraviti je pomalo i smiješno i glupo.
Htio bih napomenuti da ja ne smatram G majstorom kao ni Osho-a,ali enormna razlika između njih dvojice je ta što je G došao izravno iz škole,a Osho ne.
Kako pravi učitelj može imati na tisuće i tisuće učenika,Osho je okupljao oko sebe na mase ljudi,bio je načitan čovjek to se vidi po njegovim pričama,ali biti načitan i imati razumjevanje o ljudima su sasvim dvije različite stvari,ako je imao imalo razumjevanja kao prvo znao bi da se znanje ne može niti će se ikada moći prenijeti na mase,jel kako veli G "takav je zakon",a on je čini se i samoga sebe i ljude oko sebe zabavljao na zanimljiv način.Njegova načitanost je ona koja je igrala ulogu u njegovom životu.Moram spomenuti to da imam dojam da on tvrdi za sebe da se prosvijetlio,što je u nemoguće što se ezoterije tiče,jel učitelj mora postojati,čovjek mora učiti od onoga koji već zna.
Osho kao da je formirao crni magnetski centar.
Što se vanjskog uvažavanja tiče čini se da niti to nije znao,evo šta na wikipediji piše
Citat:
In 1951, aged nineteen, Osho began his studies at Hitkarini College in Jabalpur.[21] After acute conflicts with an instructor, the principal asked him to leave the college, and he transferred to D. N. Jain College, also in Jabalpur.[22] Having proved himself to be disruptively argumentative in Hitkarini College, he was not required to attend college classes in D. N. Jain College except for examinations, and used his free time to work for a few months as an assistant editor at a newspaper.[23] He also began speaking in public, initially at the annual Sarva Dharma Sammelan held at Jabalpur, organised by the Taranpanthi Jain community into which he was born, participating there from 1951 to 1968.
A evo još nečega
Citat:
In parallel to his university job, he travelled throughout India, giving lectures critical of socialism and Gandhi, under the name Acharya Rajneesh (Acharya means teacher or professor; Rajneesh was a nickname he had acquired in childhood).[18][31][33] Socialism, he said, was a dead loss that would only socialise poverty.[33] Gandhi was a masochist and reactionary who worshipped poverty.[18][33] To escape its backwardness, Osho said, India needed capitalism, science, modern technology and birth control
Koliko čovjek mora biti prosvjetljen da brani korumpirani sistem kao što je kapitalizam,stvarno ostajem bez riječi,čini se da od tolikih knjiga koje je čitao i iskorištavao na svoj način ipak nije se nije uspio upoznati sa kapitalizmom.
Neke izjave stoje od Osho-a,ali laž je teško prepoznati,ako se neide dovoljno duboko.A šta bi li se tek dogodilo kada bi uzeli hiperdimenzionalne stvarnosti,oni koji su iznad nas mogli su iskoristiti Osho-a na koji god hoće način,a da taj "prosvjetljeni čovjek" to niti nezna niti je toga svjestan,možda čak i jesu i time onom čovjeku koji žudi za znanjem odnosno onaj vapaj duše,su još samo otežali potragu da od svega toga blata i prljave vode nađe onu kapljicu čiste.
Evo šta jedan član sa cass foruma pod nickom obyvatel kaže
A large part of the appeal of people like Rajneesh lies in their ability to transfer or confer energy in other people. This is usually referred to as "shaktipat" in the Hindu tradition. This phenomenon is likely very real and not a product of people's imagination. Gurdjieff had a very highly developed energy transference power which he talks about in Life Is Real Only Then When "I Am".
Citat:
In my past life, being forever merciless to my natural weaknesses, and almost all the time jealously keeping watch over myself, I could attain almost anything within the limits of man's possibilities, and in some fields attained even to such a degree of power as not one man, perhaps not even in any past epoch, had ever attained. For instance, the development of the power of my thoughts had been brought to such a level that by only a few hours of self-preparation I could from a distance of tens of miles kill a yak; or, in twenty-four hours, could accumulate life forces of such compactness that I could in five minutes put to sleep an elephant.
But G subordinated these powers towards his esoteric progress and willingly deprived himself of their use so that he could "self-remember".
Energy transference powers are also exhibited by a very few highly accomplished martial artists. My current thinking based on the data I have is that such powers are possible by proper training which leads to a very highly developed motor/moving center.
Now people who develop these powers may or may not take the STO path of esoteric progress. Gurdjieff did but many others did not.
Mouravieff talks about this type (sorcerers, magicians, false prophets) in Gnosis Book2 page 181-184. He says that this is the case of man 1 whose highly developed moving center completely dominates his emotional center. The negative part of the intellectual center is paralysed while the positive part is completely dominated by the motor center. So this man does not have doubts, has extraordinary strength and a suggestive, hypnotic dynamism. Such a man develops a black magnetic center which is directed towards the well known objectives of exterior life - money, women, power in all their forms. The influences emanating from this type of man easily brings under his sway esoteric seekers who are looking for the "marvellous".
Rajneesh and quite a few present day "teachers" seem to belong to this category described by Mouravieff. A common element in their teachings is the stress on removal of all doubt which is a function of the negative half of the intellectual center. The positive half of the intellectual center in the students is used in projects and service which ultimately benefit the teacher but sometimes also has some social impact which works towards further stifling of doubts in the minds of the disciples. The magnetic effect of the teacher is amplified by the adulation of the disciples bringing more and more in their fold as Kenlee wrote above. I have had some first hand experience with the disciples of such teachers and it is quite heart-rending to see otherwise intelligent, gentle and kind people being led down the path towards entropy. The pain of honoring the free-will of others in such contexts is perhaps one of the more difficult lessons in 3D imo.
Ajmo sada vidjeti šta isto član cass foruma pod nickom Endymion koji je bio u Poona u Indiji gdje je postao sanyasin kaže sa ovim izvanrednim postom kojeg bi svatko od vas koji mislite da je Osho bio samorealizirani majstor trebao pročitati,a ja se slažem samo u tome da je on bio sve,ali majstor ne.
It's been on my mind for a while to post to this thread and I'd like to thank EgonGaGa for reviving the thread and reminding me about it. This post has turned out to be rather long!
I went to Poona, India, and became an Osho sannyasin back in 1980 when he was still calling himself Rajneesh. I've read dozens of his books. Osho's teachings and techniques, at least where they most matter, are almost diametrically opposed to the work of Laura, the Cs and Gurdjieff. Osho was very good at transmitting energy, and was quite charismatic. He had many women around him, particularly westerners, which was the source of many rumours concerning his sexual transgressions against them. I have heard from one or two Osho people that these rumours were founded in fact. Quite a common theme among the new age guru types.
I have some experience with his meditation techniques, particularly Dynamic Meditation.
Dynamic Meditation is in five stages as follows:
Stage 1 - 10 minutes fast ‘chaotic’ breathing through the nose with the emphasis on the out breath.
Stage 2 - 10 minutes catharsis: yelling, screaming, physical expression – whatever is necessary at the time. The first stage is designed to arouse one’s repressed emotions. The second stage is where you let it all out.
Stage 3 - 10 minutes jumping on the spot with arms raised above the head chanting ‘Hoo’ as one lands on the feet. This stage ends with the sudden command to ‘Stop!’
Stage 4 - 15 minutes remaining motionless in the position one stopped in.
Stage 5 - 15 minutes dancing in gratitude and celebration.
Great claims are made for Dynamic meditation by Osho and his followers, such as release of long held negative emotions. It is supposed to be a fast-track method to achieve great spiritual results in a short amount of time.
I did Dynamic Meditation daily for 9 months (many years ago) and I found none of these claims to be true. In fact I came to quite the opposite conclusion. It seems to me that repeatedly stirring up and then expressing negative emotion entrains the machine and the personality into a certain pathway, and practitioners often end up being addicted to Dynamic Meditation as a kind of safety valve.
Stage 3 is particularly punishing and I read somewhere (I don't have the reference to hand) that jumping with the arms raised puts one at risk of cardiac arrest.
One of the first rules of esoteric work is: do not express negative emotions. This is much more difficult but more rewarding than ‘letting go’ into catharsis, and you can find this suggestion as something the seeker can do at the beginning of Work, in many of the books recommended on this forum, yet it is missing from Osho's teachings. This alone puts Osho way off track.
Osho often described the goal of meditation as the cessation of thought. He described Nirvana as ‘when the candle goes out’, the candle being the mind. Enlightenment is said by him to be a blissful state of awareness beyond thought, although one can return to the mind and use it as a tool.
I first read Ouspensky's In Search of the Miraculous about five years ago and could not help but notice that Osho's ‘teachings’ can be found in that book. He added therapy groups, meditations and a large helping of sex to attract Western seekers. In the early days of the therapy groups Osho's attitude was 'anything goes' and was indeed encouraged by the group leaders, with the result that there was violence and sex in the groups.
Some people actually had limbs broken.
He was very fond of using other authors' titles for his own books. In his own books, which are transcribed talks, the signal to noise ratio is extremely poor; basically he waffles, seemingly endlessly!
I could never understand why he needed 93 Rolls Royces. That was just greed, pure and simple, imho.
Komentar.Za ovo će većina od vas koji čitate Osho-a reći da je to imao radi toga da otjera ljude koji tragaju,jel kad bi vidjeli da to ima odmah bi dobili asocijaciju i predođbu Osho-a kao šarlatana,a on ih se htio riješiti i tražio je istinske tragaoce,ali sve u svemu ono što je on našao nisu bili isitnski tragaoci,a smiješno je što je to uopće radio i tako tražio one koji traže znanje,a u ovom slučaju Osho to znanje nije posjedovao,ono što je on posjedovao je korištenje materijala iz knjiga,a zna se da je bio načitan.Potpuno shvaćam što je ono radio,ali to nije baš tako jednostavno i bilo bi glupo samo reći da je to radio samo radi toga da otjera one koji gledaju na ljude samo preko toga šta imaju i ocijenjuju duhovnost nekog čovjeka sa tima koliko satova na ruci i auta u pozadini ima.
In the early 1980s he moved to a large ranch in an isolated location in Oregon, USA. It was previously known as the Big Muddy Ranch, and John Wayne once filmed a Western there. The nearest small town was called Antelope, whose residents were not very pleased when the Rajneeshies decamped on their doorstep.
His secretary, a woman called Ma Anand Sheela, ran the place while Osho spent his time watching films, snorting nitrous oxide, or driving around the ranch in one of his Rolls Royces, stopping occasionally and waving graciously to the faithful. I was there one summer, and Osho in his car stopped a few feet away from me. Everyone around was singing, clapping and dancing to celebrate the presence of the
master (čitaj šarlatan). I did too. I really tried my best to feel the energy and be like all the others, but my impression was that the celebration was empty. What I really wanted was to be still and sense what was going on.
Maybe all the singing and dancing that Osho encouraged was in fact a mask for emptiness (ono što je Osho radio je to da je činio ljude umjetno sretnima umjesto da im pokaže koliko su uistinu oni svi ništavni,a što bi pravi učitelj napravio što znači da bi pokazao vrata,ali sam učenik bi morao proći kroz njih,osjećaj vlastite ništavnosti je ključ). Or perhaps I was truly unable to connect with the energy. After all, everyone else seemed to be able to feel it!
I once met Sheela. My impression was of a person with a very negative malignant aura, an impression borne out by her physical appearance. She had those dark bags under the eyes that indicate a toxic body. I didn’t actually talk to her, I just sat next to her quietly and that was the impression I received. Perhaps this is the impression one gets of a black magnetic centre, I don't know, but Osho certainly lost some credibility for me after that encounter.
Near the end of the Osho commune in Oregon, it had its own police force (the ‘Peace Force’, with ‘Peace Officers’) who were armed and drove around in jeeps with machine guns mounted in the rear windows. There were many accusations of vote rigging, poisoning, and other criminal activities laid against the commune during this time. Sheela claimed that the commune needed armed ‘Peace Officers’ because it was surrounded by hostile people . . . rather reminiscent of Israel‘s pathological excuse for its arsenal. This was certainly not being 'wise as serpents and gentle as doves'. In fact, looking back, I realise that even though Osho had read ISOTM, he had completely ignored the concept of external considering (ovo je potpuno točno što se vanjskog uvažavanja tiče).
Sheela was eventually imprisoned, in Germany, for fraud and wiretapping offences. The sentence was around three years if memory serves. None of this of course is mentioned on her current website.
Osho was addicted to nitrous oxide. He alleged that he had been poisoned by Ronald Regan’s government while in gaol in the USA. The results of this poisoning were said to be substantial hair and weight loss, and the loss of the teeth on one side of his mouth. He alleged that he was given a radioactive mattress to sleep on, and the teeth fell out on whichever side he normally laid on to sleep. He also alleged that he was given some bread in a tasteless grey sauce which he claimed was the vehicle for thallium poisoning. But all these symptoms were later shown to be signs of the degeneration suffered by those addicted to nitrous oxide.
Osho's nitrous oxide addiction and more is detailed in a book called Life of Osho by Sam. You can download a pdf version free of charge at _http://www.lofo.da.ru/
Osho did criticise the Powers That Be, and he was refused permission to land his aircraft at many countries on his ‘world tour’ in the mid 1980s, including the UK. Why? Actually, I have no idea. I don’t think he was nearly as much of a threat to the PTB as Laura and Cs. He appeared to have no knowledge of pathology. Or, if he did, I never came across it in his books.
Allegedly, Margaret Thatcher herself refused him permission to land in the UK, although this may be narcissism on Osho's part. He said that while in a holding room at the UK airport, he was left alone for a short time and sneaked a look at the file left on the desk, only to see Thatcher's name on a document.
Towards the end of his life, he claimed that Buddha's soul, which had been orbiting the Earth since his physical death, had entered his body, and they were now arguing about which side he should lie on to sleep. He claimed that he was in fact the Maitreya of Buddhist prophecy. (tipično,možda predator u ljudskoj koži,kako uopće može netko tko je majstor tako šta reći,ono što ja znam je samo to da npr. zen majstori na koje sam isto sumnjičav,ali koji su daleko od Osho-a,on im nije ni do koljena,nikada tako šta nebi rekli).
He never really took care of his followers, certainly not in the way that Gurdjieff did. In fact when he left India to go to America in 1981, he deserted, without warning, all the people who had come to Poona to see him. He actually referred to the sannyasins as disciples which suggests a rather narcissistic or messianic self-image.
Gurdjieff had students, not disciples (veoma važno isto).
Gurdjieff made money and used it help his students. Osho never did that. He seems to have been extremely greedy. He was a salesman. He would often say that the seeker needed only to spend a few days in therapy groups or catharsis, which of course he would have to pay for the privilege of attending, and then one would be ready to go into deep and blissful meditative states. He did talk about self-observation, but the focus on external considering and non-expression of negative emotions that we find in Gurdjieff is missing from Osho.
Osho’s world is and was a hierarchy. The big O is at the top of the pyramid, feeding on the adulation of those lower down, and who knows what was feeding on him? His teaching, imho, appeals to those who want to escape from the world and the pain of living in it to a blissful state of endless happiness (isto tipično,najlakše je ljude usrećiti)
All things considered, there is in my opinion no real comparison between the objective reality-based work that has as its foundation Laura and the Cs and Gurdjieff, and that of Osho who just wanted people to 'turn on, tune in and drop the lot'.Now, as to the article you linked quoting Osho on Gurdjieff. We should remember that Osho himself wrote many of the questions that were asked of him in his talks. My impression is that this is one such question. So he may well have written the question. In any event, Gurdjieff never 'talked about the sly man Who stole his Enlightenment from the Master.' The sly man reference comes from ISOTM where Ouspensky quotes G as saying:
Citat:
Quote from: G
The fourth way is sometimes called the way of the sly man. The sly man knows some secret which the fakir, monk and yogi do not know. How the 'sly man' learned this secret – it is not known.
Given Osho's highly materialistic nature, it's very interesting that he chooses to reinterpret G's description as theft.
The incident on the train did happen, but not as Osho describes it, and it happened with Fritz Peters, not Maurice Nicoll. You can read about it in one of Peters' books. Their titles are: 'Boyhood with Gurdjieff'; Gurdjieff Remembered; Balanced Man. The train episode appears, I believe, in the second book.
Here's Osho talking about Beelzebub's Tales to his Grandson, and he may well be describing his own experience with the book.
Citat:
Quote from: Osho
Gurdjieff was really a remarkable Mystic, one of the most remarkable who has ever walked on the earth. But to understand him is more difficult than to understand anybody else. With Gurdjieff it was true – he was very secretive. If anybody wanted to get anything from him, it was not an easy job. Even if you read his book, you cannot read more than ten pages. It is a one-thousand-page book. All And Everything is the name of the book, but you cannot go on more than ten pages, for the simple reason that he writes in such a way that to find out what he is saying is difficult. One sentence goes on running over the whole page.
By the time you end the sentence you have forgotten the beginning. And what happened in the middle, nobody knows. He was inventing words of his own, so you cannot consult any dictionary. Those words belonged to no language, he simply invented them. And they are long words – sometimes half the sentence is only one word. Even to read it is difficult, to pronounce it is difficult. In that book of one thousand pages, perhaps there are ten sentences at the most which are really profound.
Gurdjieff could have printed them on a postcard, but that man was a category in himself. He wants you to find those ten sentences in that one-thousand-page book, which he has made as difficult as possible. No book has been written the way Gurdjieff’s book was written. People go to silent places, holiday homes, beaches, mountains, to write books. Gurdjieff used to go to restaurants, pubs. And sitting in the middle of the restaurant where everything was going on – hundreds of people coming in and going out, all kinds of talk – he was writing his book, his masterpiece.
The impression I get from this is that although Osho appears to be praising Gurdjieff, he is actually belittling him and his work. Yes, Beelzebub's Tales is hard work, but it is also very rewarding. Beelzebub's Tales has a very specific purpose, and that is:
To destroy, mercilessly, without any compromises whatsoever, in the mentation and feelings of the reader, the beliefs and views, by centuries rooted in him, about everything existing in the world. It seems that Osho just wasn't ready for that.And here is Osho again, firstly comparing Gurdjieff to Stalin, then saying that he (Osho) is more 'user friendly' than Gurdjieff:
Citat:
Gurdjieff was Caucasian, and the Caucasus is famous for producing really strong men. Another Caucasian was Joseph Stalin. The word ‘stalin’ in Russian means man of steel. But Gurdjieff was far ahead of Joseph Stalin. This was a test for the follower. Just think of yourself – you would have escaped. Seeing the situation, that he is going to be caught and thrown into a jail.... That’s what the driver and the conductor and the engineer were all saying: ”If you don’t stop, we are going to throw your master into jail. At the next station the police will be there, we have already informed them.”
But to trust a man like me is very simple. I will not put you in any such situation. You need not steal anything from me, because I am putting everything on the table before you. So Gurdjieff’s statement is relevant only to him and to his disciples. It is absolutely irrelevant to me and you. I am not your master, I am not hiding anything from you. You need not steal. I am trying to give you the gift and you go on running!
Consider Osho's avowal in this next excerpt, that he is trying to give his disciples the truth, as a gift, and compare that with the assertions of Laura, Gurdjieff and many others that truth requires long, dedicated work.
It requires years of struggle. It seems also that Osho has completely misunderstood the concept of the sly man. The world does not need adults who are 'innocent children'. It needs mature individuals who are willing to work and do.
Citat:
Quote from: Osho
I am trying to present you the truth, as a gift. But truth – even to accept it as a gift – is a difficult phenomenon, because if you accept the truth, then all the lies that you have been living up to now have to be dropped. Gurdjieff was his type. I am my type. And I know there is no need for me to hide anything, because you are hiding from me, and I am trying to push truth, love, compassion, meditation – everything – into your pockets. And you go on running away from me because you know that I am a lazy man and I will not run after you.
You have simply to receive with grace. There is no need to steal here. Why should you be reduced to thieves? Why should you be made the sly man? I want you to be the innocent child, who is ready and open and vulnerable. And I am so full of my ecstasy that I want to rain on anybody without asking his qualifications, his characteristics. But you are so afraid seeing the rain cloud coming up, you rush into your homes just to save your clothes, afraid that they will get wet. Yes, it is true you are dry, and if you allow me to shower on you, you are going to become juicy.
Eto malo materijala za razmisliti što se Oshoa tiče
Prijava
FAQ
Pretraživač
, ide ti privatno pa provjeri tamo. 
Ako hoćeš pošalji poruku pa i tebi pošaljem. To vrijedi za sve. A sad dajte da prestanemo oftopičarit. 
